One thing I don't understand...

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addonsfan
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One thing I don't understand...

Post by addonsfan » Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:53 pm

I guess the new American dream is to get everyone well educated, healthy, and have good high paying jobs. But the thing that gets me is, who's gonna make my hamburger at Burger King when I get hungry?? :lol: =P~

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Re: One thing I don't understand...

Post by abfan123 » Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:20 pm

:lol:
What's wrong with hamburgers at burger king though? Yes, The job there is probably not entering into the "high paying" category, But their hamburgers are perfectly fine.
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Re: One thing I don't understand...

Post by AXEMAN » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:51 pm

addonsfan wrote:I guess the new American dream is to get everyone well educated, healthy, and have good high paying jobs. But the thing that gets me is, who's gonna make my hamburger at Burger King when I get hungry?? :lol: =P~
Burger King will always be there because thats where all the dope users work lol :lol: :lol:

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Re: One thing I don't understand...

Post by addonsfan » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:04 am

AXEMAN wrote:
addonsfan wrote:I guess the new American dream is to get everyone well educated, healthy, and have good high paying jobs. But the thing that gets me is, who's gonna make my hamburger at Burger King when I get hungry??
Burger King will always be there because thats where all the dope users work lol
:shock:
If everyone goes and gets a good "thinking" job that requires college, then you're right... The only people that'll be left for Burger King are the dopers. :o

That's scarey thought, to think that dopers probably won't ever be able to form a well constructed long lasting hamburger. I guess we need some of those smart "thinkers" going to college, to get a job that doesn't actually require college.
abfan123 wrote:But their hamburgers are perfectly fine.
As for the hamburger currently, I agree with abfan... It's a fine hamburger. Then again, fortunately for me, the fast food restaurants in our town is full of college students needing to pay tuition, as far as I can tell. I can't really say that for the construction workers in our town though. :think:

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Re: One thing I don't understand...

Post by AXEMAN » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:19 pm

Hey guys i was just joking about burgerking and the dopers. :lol: :)

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Re: One thing I don't understand...

Post by hornakapopolis » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:46 am

addonsfan wrote:I guess the new American dream is to get everyone well educated, healthy, and have good high paying jobs. But the thing that gets me is, who's gonna make my hamburger at Burger King when I get hungry?? :lol: =P~
When has "the American Dream" ever not been about being well educated and having a high paying job? I don't think there's anything "new" about that. As for the "healthy" part, that's never really been a part of it and it's really not any part of it now. If you're referring to healthcare reform, though, the focus there seems to be to make sure everyone can be well medicated... there's not much talk about preventive healthy in any summaries I've read or the (admittedly small) parts of the bill I've read.


As for the overall point of what you're trying to say, you seem to be forgetting that jobs are created out of necessity, not employee availability. And, the goal isn't about making it a reality for everyone. It's about making it a possibility.

Most importantly, though, it's assuming that the only people out looking for job are, or are going to be, college graduates, which I think we can all admit is just a bit silly.

Even though you don't really hear people talking about it (at least I haven't), I've always thought one of the biggest differences between Republican ideas and Democratic ideas is who is responsible for leading progress in a society. I think it can be generally summarized that Republicans believe it should be the people while Democrats feel it should be the government. And while I do believe that it should be the people, I'll also admit that with the current state of mind of most of our businesses, we have to admit that the guy that does bust his a** working at Burger King really only has a shot at being a store manager... never earning enough from his hard work to open his own store.

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Re: One thing I don't understand...

Post by addonsfan » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:12 pm

hornakapopolis wrote:When has "the American Dream" ever not been about being well educated and having a high paying job? I don't think there's anything "new" about that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the dream to have a job, period? Well, I guess you're kinda right... After college, all people want is just any job that doesn't require labor.
hornakapopolis wrote:As for the overall point of what you're trying to say, you seem to be forgetting that jobs are created out of necessity, not employee availability. And, the goal isn't about making it a reality for everyone. It's about making it a possibility.
Actually, this is the main point I was trying to make, except people going to college don't see it quite the same. Most of them are expecting the good job right away. The other point I was trying to make, is that a lot of people just don't have very much common sense anymore, maybe book smarts, but no common sense to be able to see this.
hornakapopolis wrote:Most importantly, though, it's assuming that the only people out looking for job are, or are going to be, college graduates, which I think we can all admit is just a bit silly.
The way I see it, there's three types of people looking for jobs; college graduates, dopers, and the rest. The rest is a very small portion of decent people looking for a decent living, to provide for there family. The ones that aren't very greedy, and aren't afraid to do some actual labor. But I'm just not willing to go out and do a complete study on that for the sake of an arguement.
hornakapopolis wrote:Even though you don't really hear people talking about it (at least I haven't), I've always thought one of the biggest differences between Republican ideas and Democratic ideas is who is responsible for leading progress in a society. I think it can be generally summarized that Republicans believe it should be the people while Democrats feel it should be the government. And while I do believe that it should be the people, I'll also admit that with the current state of mind of most of our businesses, we have to admit that the guy that does bust his a** working at Burger King really only has a shot at being a store manager... never earning enough from his hard work to open his own store.
Here's what I see: Joe busts his a** for about 60% of his paycheck. 40% going to taxes. Joe gets fed up, gets a little more lazier each day, a little more careless. After all, would you want to do a good job if you only get 60% of what you should?? I think common sense is kinda dependant on apprehension, don't you?? It's no wonder Joe has lost all his common sense.

Government; either real greedy or, for lack of a better term, just plain stupid. (little of both??)
The People; powerless, starting to not care, therefore losing common sense.
Businesses; retaining their common sense, just trying to survive.

For God's sake, if anyone disagrees with me, than please say something. If you just don't care, then you're just another person I see without common sense. God's wonderful gift to be able to apprehend.

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Re: One thing I don't understand...

Post by hornakapopolis » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:28 pm

On my way out the door, but....
If you just don't care, then you're just another person I see without common sense. God's wonderful gift to be able to apprehend.
Whah? You're tying apathy and common sense together without absolutely no support. Unless you're trying to use the "Joe example" above... which reads as if someone just went to thesaurus and incorrectly pulled out the word "apprehension" ...Much like the kid who uses the thesaurus for the first time and describes the "tall guy" and the "elevated guy." Either way... Joe is not the direct result of a 40% tax. You're forgetting about an abandonment of work ethic which ties to an underlying issue of not having a solid belief system. You're also ignoring an apparent inability to verbalize, deal with, and resolve issues. Also, you're placing the motivation of college graduates' yearning for a high paying job solely on greed and false sense of self worth and completely ignoring motivation, ambition, and most importantly, the probably $60k+ in debt they're worried about paying off. Not to mention it's easier to apply for jobs.... blah.... I might come back to this, but as the last idea/argument thread I read of yours, you're starting at a false premise and backing it up with singular instances which, to anyone actually involved in the situation, don't encompass the average of the whole and apocryphal tales that just don't stand up to even the slightest bit of real world logic.

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Re: One thing I don't understand...

Post by addonsfan » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:26 am

hornakapopolis wrote:Whah? You're tying apathy and common sense together without absolutely no support. Unless you're trying to use the "Joe example" above... which reads as if someone just went to thesaurus and incorrectly pulled out the word "apprehension" ...Much like the kid who uses the thesaurus for the first time and describes the "tall guy" and the "elevated guy." Either way... Joe is not the direct result of a 40% tax.
Actually, I said that based on the other thing I said:
I think common sense is kinda dependant on apprehension, don't you??
But you didn't answer that question, so I'll just assume you agree with it. Nonetheless, I'm gonna be honest, I just see that little part of your reply as an attempt to discredit me in every area possible. Then again, I'm sure we have different definition of "common sense". I include work ethic, basic math/language (even though a teacher wouldn't), etc in with the common sense definition. It's a combination of those things, with the ability to apprehend/percieve something that's going on to be able to make a good judgement. Without apprehension, you're just "taught". Care to tell me what you think common sense is?
hornakapopolis wrote:You're forgetting about an abandonment of work ethic...
Really? I thought I was explaining the abandonment of work ethic, and from actual expirience.
hornakapopolis wrote:...which ties to an underlying issue of not having a solid belief system.
Okay, I can see how it ties in with a solid belief system. But are you trying to say that solid belief systems can't be changed?
hornakapopolis wrote:You're also ignoring an apparent inability to verbalize, deal with, and resolve issues.
And why should I acknowledge that? This started off as a basic hamburger thread... I wasn't trying to prove anything really. Just wanted to discuss a possibility. It really is possible for a whole group of people to eventually decide they don't want to make hamburgers anymore, just like it's possible that people are deciding they don't want to do labor. They wanna sit in an air conditioned building, and do something else. Who wouldn't, don't you? I think it would be nice, but there's that work ethic thing again which people seem to be losing...
hornakapopolis wrote:Also, you're placing the motivation of college graduates' yearning for a high paying job solely on greed and false sense of self worth and completely ignoring motivation, ambition, and most importantly, the probably $60k+ in debt they're worried about paying off. Not to mention it's easier to apply for jobs....
Motivation is to get a high paying job?? Are you seriously just gonna ignore my entire post, and ignore all my points then say I'm the one doing the ignoring?

Please go back and read my post over again, because I don't think you quite understand my point. t seems you're just making absurd accusations about ignoring this, or being wrong about that. One big difference between us, is that we have different definitions for things like common sense, and work ethics.

Maybe I expect a little much from people when I say, "common sense." What should I say instead, "people are stupid"? Another thing I don't think you really understand is that this is an arguement on opinions... You're gonna say something like, "well go do some research to change your opinion", aren't you? I think you expect a little more out of a simple arguement, like I expect more out of "common sense".

So for a change, gimme your opinions so I can nitpick it... Oh wait, a nitpicker would know better than to speak his mind, without atleast a couple hours to make sure his arguement is abolutely bulletproof. ;)

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Re: One thing I don't understand...

Post by hornakapopolis » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:24 am

addonsfan wrote:
hornakapopolis wrote:Whah? You're tying apathy and common sense together without absolutely no support. Unless you're trying to use the "Joe example" above... which reads as if someone just went to thesaurus and incorrectly pulled out the word "apprehension" ...Much like the kid who uses the thesaurus for the first time and describes the "tall guy" and the "elevated guy." Either way... Joe is not the direct result of a 40% tax.
Actually, I said that based on the other thing I said:
I think common sense is kinda dependant on apprehension, don't you??
But you didn't answer that question, so I'll just assume you agree with it.
You're all over the place... that's what makes it hard to respond without spending an hour. But, if the length of time between my replies over the internet is going to be measure of something, then there's no point in even continuing this because I think we both have better things to do with our lives.

Here though, to recap, is what I was saying in the quoted area above.

You said, "If you just don't care, then you're just another person I see without common sense." To which I said I have no idea how you're tying those two things together. If someone disagrees with you, but bother bother to respond, they don't have common sense? Explain that to me. (And in regards to being nitpicky... I find it a bit nitpicky to be in conversation with someone and have to say, "Now that I've responded and said what you said didn't make sense to me, I would like to respond." You say you want a conversation, lest we lack common sense, and yet when engaged in one questioning how you come to conclusions, you jump to calling names. If I tell you what I think doesn't make sense, do I have to then say, Please respond" to not be nit-picking? I think that's a bit ridiculous...

...Please respond. :roll:)

Basically, though (and please forgive the narrative jumping around a bit, it's late) one of the things I was saying was that I didn't understand how your were using "apprehension." How is common sense dependent on apprehension? But maybe you should start by defining apprehension because I didn't see it in the story about Joe. How was Joe apprehensive? What was he apprehensive about?
Then again, I'm sure we have different definition of "common sense". I include work ethic, basic math/language (even though a teacher wouldn't), etc in with the common sense definition.
There's no mention of apprehension here (or anything of those things when talking about common sense above) I know you're a guy that likes to think and a guy that likes to talk, but I think the problem is that you can't go into these conversations with your own definition of words and concepts that are already defined. That's where you're losing me on the "apprehension" thing and I'd be surprised to find anyone out there (and feel free to chime in if you do) that considers language and math skills a part of common sense. I mean, I can almost see where someone figuring out the concept of something like multiplication could be considered "common sense," but I think I'd still have to toss it into a category above that because, as common as multiplication is, I think the ability to create the concept isn't quite as common.

I don't know, but tossing it out there to anyone else itnerested in answering, does anyone really think common sense should include learned ideas and concepts? Am I absolutely in thinking that this is the exact opposite of the concept of common sense.

But, it's already later than I wanted to stay on here... but maybe we should think about Skyping or something like that as opposed to typing this out. This isn't meant to sound like a dig, but I feel like you jump all over the place (says the guy that just rambled away 25 minutes of his time) and it makes it hard to respond to what you're saying without putting in "college thesis" type of time... except on 5 different topics.

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Re: One thing I don't understand...

Post by addonsfan » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:47 am

hornakapopolis wrote:You said, "If you just don't care, then you're just another person I see without common sense." To which I said I have no idea how you're tying those two things together. If someone disagrees with you, but bother bother to respond, they don't have common sense? Explain that to me. (And in regards to being nitpicky... I find it a bit nitpicky to be in conversation with someone and have to say, "Now that I've responded and said what you said didn't make sense to me, I would like to respond." You say you want a conversation, lest we lack common sense, and yet when engaged in one questioning how you come to conclusions, you jump to calling names. If I tell you what I think doesn't make sense, do I have to then say, Please respond" to not be nit-picking? I think that's a bit ridiculous...
Why is it that whenever we get in an arguement, someone always misunderstands the other? (oh I guess I am all over the place) :lol: Something I failed to add to my definition of "common sense" last post that you just reminded me about, is actual "giving a damn" about something. If someone really doesn't care about what's going on in the world, or just goes through the world without much of a care, than (in my own definition/belief) that person can't have very much common sense due to lack of care for their well-being. However now that I think about it, that's kinda (not sure how to say) aloof to this situation. I think this arguement hardly compairs to things that goes on in the world.

I really don't understand how you got, "if you disagree with me you have no common sense" out of that though. Simpely put, "if you don't care, than you have no common sense." Which actually isn't good either, should be, "if you don't care about anything around you, you're common sense isn't good."

Than again some people do care about their own well-being, which apparently is why they go to college. I don't know the percentage of the working class that works in construction, fast food, or offices. But I do know that there's always gonna be a demand in the jobs that people don't want to do. To me, it seems that no one wants to do actual labor. I mean, common sense tells me that sitting in an air conditioned office on a hot summer day would be more appealing. When demand goes up even more for all the jobs that no one wants to do (the ones that require no college or extra education) than just maybe those jobs are gonna have higher pay rates than previously. Then maybe college doesn't seem so appropriate. And I do understand, that's assuming there's not a single job anyone wants, that doesn't require college. Which would mean that not everyone is currently going to college. But the original scenerio for my original post was that everyone was going to college, and no one wanted to work at Burger King. Just a scenerio...

I do think it would be interesting to have a statistic on the people not going to college, how many are actually addicted to some kind of drug or alcohol. (only about %40 of high school graduates go to college)
hornakapopolis wrote:Basically, though (and please forgive the narrative jumping around a bit, it's late) one of the things I was saying was that I didn't understand how your were using "apprehension." How is common sense dependent on apprehension? But maybe you should start by defining apprehension because I didn't see it in the story about Joe. How was Joe apprehensive? What was he apprehensive about?
Apprehend:
Answers.com wrote:To become conscious of, as through the emotions or senses; perceive.
Going hand-in-hand with actually "giving a damn" about something, you kinda have to be aware about what's going on in the world.

Conscious:
Answers.com wrote:Having an awareness of one's environment and one's own existence, sensations, and thoughts. See synonyms at aware.
hornakapopolis wrote:
Then again, I'm sure we have different definition of "common sense". I include work ethic, basic math/language (even though a teacher wouldn't), etc in with the common sense definition.
There's no mention of apprehension here (or anything of those things when talking about common sense above)
That's what makes it seem like you're nitpicking, because the very next sentence:
It's a combination of those things, with the ability to apprehend/percieve something that's going on to be able to make a good judgement.
My overall point is that common sense is many things, and if you lose one of those things you're common sense just isn't very good.
Answers.com wrote:Sound judgment not based on specialized knowledge; native good judgment.
Without apprehension, what is common sense? Think about that... People aren't born with common sense, it's something you acquire. Whether it's taught or figured out. If you can't open your eyes and figure out what's going on, than it's just not common sense. It's just knowledge. It's something that you know should be, but really nothing more. And you have to be able to apprehend in order to gain common sense. Without having apprehension in the first place, how did we acquire that knowledge?

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