Official 2008 US Presidential Race (Barack Obama won)

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Official 2008 US Presidential Race (Barack Obama won)

Post by statm1 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:34 am

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Please keep this topic clean. Any bashing of a user because of their views will result in a warning and if necessary a temporary ban.

We can have a good discussion and a debate of our own on who we think will make the best candidate for the next 4 years.

Now that all that is out of the way. Everyone interested post your opinions on either McCain or Obama and why (if you have made up your mind yet) you support that candidate. We will keep this going until November and we can post our opinions about each of the parties conventions later this year.
I'll start it off..

Im actually on the fence this time after having been entirely on one side the last eight years. Now that doesn't mean what most people mean nowadays. That Bush made them ashamed of their party. I actually like some views on both sides. While I absolutely hate one in particular.

If Obama wins, and he does the "popular" thing and not necessarily the RIGHT thing, of just making the American people happy by bringing the troops home. He better be ready to accept the consequences of Iraq being overthrown by al-Qaeda and the world gaining yet another unneeded terrorist state. Now, Im not going to defend McCain to much because he has said some things that shouldn't have been said if only for PR reasons.. I will admit that I voted for Bush both times and I am proud of my decision to do so.

We do not need to go into the tired story of we shouldn't of gone to Iraq in the first place, for one because we cannot change it now and for another hindsight plays a keyrole in this situation. With the information they had "at the time" they had every right to go in. If there is a plus to invading Iraq it is that we have one less dicator in the world and the people of Iraq have a shining future now because of it. Their human rights are not being stomped on any longer. They have freedom now.

The military issue is mainly the only thing that keeps me leaning more on the republican side then on the democrat side because I believe they are shortsighted. They have yet to say anything about what they will do after they leave Iraq. Its not stable enough to be on its own yet. Yes they are making extreme progress on that front but they are also being plagued with corruption in some of the police forces.

Anyway, those are my initial views..
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by André » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:38 am

Ron Paul 2008


On a more serious note...

I'll be sticking with Obama this time as he is the lesser of two evils in my mind. McCain has flip-flopped so many times in this months so far, I do not believe he is trustworthy.

On the war topic, being in Iraq, aswell as about 130 other countries, only creates hostility between nations. The United States is not the world police. It is not our responsibility to make every nation play by our rules. It is only making our country more suseptible to attack because our military is spread thin and has no large presents in our own country. According to the official story, we couldn't even stop 19 guys from hijacking four airplanes with boxcutters and crashing them into 3 high profile buildings.
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by addonsfan » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:12 am

If Obama wins, and he does the "popular" thing and not necessarily the RIGHT thing, of just making the American people happy by bringing the troops home.
Personally, I think bringing the troops home is a bad idea. Look at it this way; Right now we are in one general spot fighting a war, and all/most of the terrorists are there fighting. If we bring the troops now, then the terrorists are going to scatter, all over the world.

And if we give up now, then why did all of those Americans have to die? It would be for no reason. Making the statement that we're **** off isn't good enough. And now so many of our Americans have died, if they were looking down, how do you think they would feel watching their comrades set down their guns and leave?

If I were them looking down, I would feel like it should be either go for it and don't give in, or don't go for it at all.

Obama, afaik, isn't for using America's oil. McCain, afaik, is. Why should we be buying the oil from other countries, when we ourselves have enough to last much longer? This is an economic war, and so far the terrorists are winning. We need to wise up, use our own resources, and stop messing around.

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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by André » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:26 am

Many people are looking at the current war in a similar fashion to the Veitnam war. A war with no real purpose and no real gains. Matt said that at the time, the intelligence we had supports starting the war. I disagree with that. Iraq is such a third world nation, they hardly posed a threat to us.

Now, I don't agree with just packing up and calling it quits in a couple of months but we really need to start making an exit. Start washing everything up and get our in a year. Just make some progress. This war has been in somewhat of a stalemate for a while with neither side advancing very much even though we have a far superior army.

Edit: What make you so sure they will scatter and is that even a bad thing? If they scatter, their forces would be much weaker. The local governments would have a much easier time dealing with a small amount of "terrorists" than a large amount.

Obama is for alternative energy btw.
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by darth » Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:07 pm

Sometimes back a poll was taken of the people of Iraq was taken: the question was asked "Why are the americans here?" thier answer was "for our oil". Yesterday, the news reported that major oil companies of the west were readying up for "no bid contracts" for thier oil. Could they had been right or maybe wrong. And Mr McCain said something to the effect about staying staying in Iraq for 100 years. Wow thats a long time to be in a country where a civil war is going on. Not much on history, but as I understand it.The country of Iraq was put together in the 1920's by England. Sunnis, Shilites and kurds. They never really got along.
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by statm1 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:19 pm

Thats all propaganda though.. There isn't a civil war there, we everted that. And the price of gas in America would be much much higher if we weren't there. So I have never understood why the democrats or whoever accuse the military of being there because of oil and call it a bad thing.

And I agree somewhat.. However long it takes for Iraq to be self-sufficient in protecting itself then thats how long we should be there..

Edit: As for terrorists spreading out, they are dangerous if they are spread out because they work just fine on their own.. ever heard of terrorist cells?
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by darth » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:58 pm

Well the battle in this presidental election is for the independent vote. Most republicans and democrats most likely have made up thier minds already. Of course you've got some smaller parties in the race too. It will be interesting to see if they maybe hurt one of the major parties. I have'nt seen the odds from Las Vegas on who may prevail in this election. Have you?
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by statm1 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:16 pm

I wasnt aware that there were odds.. And is there an independent candidate?
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by darth » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:56 pm

Sure Vegas will be taking bets on this election. Maybe not right now, but as it gets closer to election time. A independent is a voter who belongs to no party, but votes in general elections. No there is no independent in the race as for as iI know. Both Obama and McCain is courting these voters. They can make or break it for one of them. According to the news There are many more Democrats regidtered to vote than Republicans. Being registered to vote and going out to vote is the big question. I think McCain needs the independent vote more than Obama based on the registered mumbers.
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by scubamaster » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:16 pm

Here is the link to the largest internet betting site Intrade:

http://www.intrade.com//?request_operat ... ePage=true

At the time of this writing the bets are: 64.2 Obama to 33.3 McSame

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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by scubamaster » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:22 pm

darth wrote:No there is no independent in the race as for as iI know.
Well you have to get a bit better information:

- Ralph Nader is running as an Independent and some polls give him up to 2% in certain states

- Bob Barr is running as a Libertarian and some polls give him up to 4% in certain states

There might be others running under the radar.

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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by darth » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:32 pm

Wow, did'nt know the odds were that high. Yeah knew about Bob Barr running as as a Libertarian. He quite the republican party sometime back. I thought Nader would be ruinning on the Green Party ticket, I think they call it
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by statm1 » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:30 am

It is a common fact that just because your registered to vote with a certain party does not mean you have to vote that way.
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by addonsfan » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:21 pm

DrDrrae wrote:What make you so sure they will scatter and is that even a bad thing? If they scatter, their forces would be much weaker. The local governments would have a much easier time dealing with a small amount of "terrorists" than a large amount.
I'm not sure, but to me that seems like the smart thing to do. Scatter like cancer, and keep in contact with HQ for further instructions. Like having a colony of ants, stomping on a few coming out of the hole, then all of the ants just spreading out so you can't kill them all. So the terrorists want world domination and to have everyone believe what they believe? How are they to convert people without scattering?
scubamaster wrote:At the time of this writing the bets are: 64.2 Obama to 33.3 McSame
I'm not saying Obama is the wrong man for the job, but I would rather have the same president again than a the wrong president. Bush could have been a good president, if he made some better decisions. Who's to say that McCain wouldn't make some better decisions? It's like the chaos theory, in which one slight change could make all the difference. You cannot say that having McCain as a president would be like having Bush again, because the fact remains that Bush and McCain are two different people with different views.

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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by darth » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:08 pm

Some opposing O'Bama may hope some for something big to happen before the election, inorder to influence the results of the election. Say like a strike on Iran. Sure would be convenient. I hope not at this time, although that may come anyway download the road. Mr McCain is known for his temper outburst with menbers of his own party, most lately with the Senator from Texas , who is a republican. Temper outburst plus an age of 71, the question is: Is this the person to have thier finger on the Red Nuclear Button. The voters in November will answer that. Yes I know about Regan's age. But in his second term there were questions about problems of his well being from menbers of all parties.
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by addonsfan » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:21 pm

Well the thing that bothers me is that is how I look on Youtube and see comments like "man I love that brother" under Obama's videos, with 30++ "thumbs up". Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that, but this makes me think that Obama automatically gets the black vote, reguardless of their views.

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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by darth » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:08 pm

Well in the southern democratic primaries black folks voted overwhelming voted for Obama against Clinton. The term brother and sister is used often by black folks. Don'nt see anything wrong with that. And for the most part most black folks will probably go for Obama in the general election as you say. However there are some black republicans, abiet a few. Hard to tell how many.
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by André » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:52 pm

addonsfan wrote:I'm not sure, but to me that seems like the smart thing to do. Scatter like cancer, and keep in contact with HQ for further instructions. Like having a colony of ants, stomping on a few coming out of the hole, then all of the ants just spreading out so you can't kill them all. So the terrorists want world domination and to have everyone believe what they believe? How are they to convert people without scattering?
Maybe but you would be very nieve to think that all "terrorism" can be abolished. It simply can't. We can't even control our own streets in our own country. Why should we be cleaning up the streets of other countries when they aren't a real threat to us? Iraq was never and still isn't a threat to our national security.
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by darth » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:23 pm

I agree DrDrrae.
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Re: Official 2008 US Presidential Race discussion

Post by statm1 » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:39 pm

Once again.. Being shortsighted.. As I said in my first post. If we leave to soon and Iraq's young government crumbles from not being able to adequetely defend their nation from internal and external forces(iran). Then al-Qaeda is going to gain its own country unfeddered from planning the next attack on America.

What Iraq "could" become is a threat to us.. And we can't ignore that. I believe its extremely selfish to think that we have no responsibility as a world power to help the helpless. We are all on this Earth together and we all deserve to live in a peaceful place. Some countries are just incapable of helping themselves and innocent people suffer because of it.

The argument that we can't even control our own streets so why should we clean up other countries streets? Well, the military has nothing to do with policing our own streets. Ever see the movie "The Siege".. Its about using the military to police our own streets to weed out terrorists.. I sure don't want that to happen and live in an America that would do that to its citizens. Now I know no one said anything about using the military to police our streets. But they are used quite frequently as a peace keeping force. There is good in helping others that can't help themselves.
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