Some things never change...

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hornakapopolis
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Some things never change...

Post by hornakapopolis » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:03 pm

...and you can read that however you want. ;) :lol:

While strolling down memory lane and was looking back at some old posts... including some in our staff area. It, too, mentioned how we seemed to get hotheads around here in groups and then they'd disappear for awhile.

One particular post stuck out, though, and I thought I'd share.
Memory leaks, script errors, loading errors, shutdown issues... etc., the list is endless! The major problems with this browser are carried from one version to the next... I don't know how long people are complaining about the Icons Bug, check yourself in the archives!!! In one posting they even blame IE for it!!! How stupid!!! And that is just one of them. The lack in programming skills is demonstrated by the board moderators in aggressive behaviour and nonsense answers out of frustration. Users who challenge them with their expertise are simply ignored. Lousy browser, pathetic moderators. That is all that Avant is and ever will be.
Before cheating by searching, can anyone guess the year this was posted? I just found the amount of time that had passed funny.

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by UFO UFO » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:04 am

where did you get it from?
from the day i tried avant, it was much faster than any other browser that i tested.

i guess that sometimes you must ignore what people say to keep the good job done.

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by Sara » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:11 am

2003?

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by UFO UFO » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:57 am

how do you know?

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by hornakapopolis » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:28 am

Sara wrote:2003?
Yep, you're right. Here's the thread.

http://forum.avantbrowser.com/viewtopic ... 91&p=17274

This was around the time of release of 8.02 Build 105.

Yeah, this horrible browser will never last... :roll:


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Re: Some things never change...

Post by KY Dave » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:41 pm

Has anything changed? IMO - NO.

Users are still griping about the browser's faults.
Problems still arise concerning forum staff and users.

It isn't like there is a wide spread revolt or acceptance of Avant.
There are probably more downloads than before,
that doesn't mean much except people are trying something besides IE.
Are they sticking with Avant, who knows?
FireFox and Opera are getting more traffic too.

It really seems to me as "Some things never change..."
means the same stuff is still going on and
I don't think that's anything to be proud about.
It can't all be laid on the user's doorsteps so easily.

I didn't read anywhere in the linked thread where it was said, 'the browser will never last.'
It's not that hard to keep giving something away for free.
I think cycles of complaints can be attributed to releases of
Avant that don't work as well as other releases have worked.

It would have been nice if somethings would have changed.

Such as,
If the browser had less problems.
The users weren't coming to the forum to complain as much.
The 'Avant Team' listened to complaints and fixed the problems.
The entire forum staff was receptive to user problems, not dismissive.

Pointing out this 'lack of change' is meant to be positive.
I would like to see Avant and this forum become better through positive changes.
I have suggested a few myself.
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Re: Some things never change...

Post by UFO UFO » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:54 pm

why is your post styled like a song?
anyway, it's a good thing that avant is not like firefox, and it's a good thing that it doesn't have a religion/cult-like community like it.

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by ABman » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:58 pm

I don't have any particular problem with Avant at the moment, it is still my browser of choice. However, I reckon a great deal of frustration and a large percentage of complaints would disappear if just two things were changed.
1. Groups button put back to how it used to be.
2. System buttons put back to how they were.
Unfortunately, I don't see this happening now because these two things have been known and posted about for a relatively long time now and with the total lack of feedback from Anderson regarding these items, I feel that for some reason he doesn't want to or can't change them back. That's a pity.

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by Sara » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:12 pm

K Y Dave, you've been around since the end of 2003 at least, so you know that many user requests have been met. You also know that there have been other staff who have been seen as dismissive as well as other negative things. you also know that the staff has no control over the content of the browser and are here only to try and assist other users in solving the problems that can be solved.

You also know that you are not the first, nor will you be the last, frustrated poster on the board. Other boards might have warned you or banned you by now for your negativism, we haven't. We have banned folks, the vast majority for spam and a small number for flagrant breeches of the Forum rules--mostly repeated profanity.

We all have things in our lives that we have no control over. It doesn't really entitle us to be as dismissive and angry as you seem to be. I suspect that one reason Anderson rarely answers his PM's is that hr sees a lot more messages like yours than we do. I do know we have lost staff because they were tired of being abused.

Sara :?

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by hornakapopolis » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:11 pm

KY Dave wrote:Has anything changed? IMO - NO.

Users are still griping about the browser's faults.
Problems still arise concerning forum staff and users.

It isn't like there is a wide spread revolt or acceptance of Avant.
There are probably more downloads than before,
that doesn't mean much except people are trying something besides IE.
Are they sticking with Avant, who knows?
FireFox and Opera are getting more traffic too.

It really seems to me as "Some things never change..."
means the same stuff is still going on and
I don't think that's anything to be proud about.
It can't all be laid on the user's doorsteps so easily.

I didn't read anywhere in the linked thread where it was said, 'the browser will never last.'
Yeah, just as what was said in your previous sentence was never stated.

My main point was that we always seem to have people who get upset at their issues and blame it on everything and everyone else. Why wasn't their problem fixed? Because so and so didn't care. Why are they being ignored/lambasted for their behavior/banned? Because no one here wants to admit there are flaws in Avant... or we're all just idiots. :roll:

As I've thought for a long time a mentioned in another post recently, this forum might hurt Avant a little because people confuse the forum with having Anderson's ear. Admittedly, my last post mentions the browser, but I meant it more as a tongue-in-cheek poke at the how horrible the browser is and it's always going to be that way. As I point out in my first post, the point of the thread was the hotheads we get here... who confuse the forum staff with the browser developers... or the forum with the browser itself.

Even you have to admit, my first post was ignored and my one sentence about the browser turned your whole reply to one about the browser and not about the behavior of people here on the forum. So, I think it's a rather common issue that the volunteers here have to put up with.
KY Dave wrote:Such as,
If the browser had less problems.
The users weren't coming to the forum to complain as much.
The 'Avant Team' listened to complaints and fixed the problems.
The entire forum staff was receptive to user problems, not dismissive.
I'm sort of with you on this last one. I know that I used to run across posts from time to time that said nothing more than, "It is working fine here. Please check your IE version number" and want to jab a fork in my eye. However, I think that that problem is largely taken care of now. Beyond that, the only dismissing that I can think of off the top of my head tends to be because of rule violations. Not saying that things can't be worked on the staff level, but I really can't think of any one person that blatantly dismisses people. I'd welcome a PM for a name, though. Even though I'm not around as much, I, and others, would certainly keep an eye out and form our own opinion.

As for the issues that that post lists; Memory leaks, script errors, loading errors, shutdown issues; I've never had a memory leak, script error, or loading error. Well, sort of on the loading error. One of the jumps from one of the versions locked me up and I had to delete the config file. There was one v8 build where Avant would get stuck in memory when I tried to close, but it was fixed within a week in a new build release. Also, I received that error box with the "Copy Text" button a handful of times since Build 18. I thought I had it on 20, but I didn't realize that I hadn't updated my 2nd office computer.

What I've found is funny about posting on the forum is, though... if you don't have a particular issue, people feel absolutely happy to post, "Well you don't have it. Big deal. How does that help me?" ...but their situation must be treated with the same import as brain surgery.
KY Dave wrote:Pointing out this 'lack of change' is meant to be positive.
I would like to see Avant and this forum become better through positive changes.
I have suggested a few myself.
And while most of my post had been saved as a draft I came back to finish it and accidentally hit the Back button on my mouse, so I lost what wasn't saved earlier. One thing I did want to add, though... to show some love over in the KY Dave direction... is that I do think that they are plenty of people that are as bothered about issue with Avant as you, but I think they get stifled here because the break 2 or 3 of our forum rules while complaining about them. I've locked a few posts that I thought would be a decent idea to address, but they also decided to call everyone idiots or make up fake statistics about usage... and admittedly, if 'm looking at something that's ridiculous, I'll tend to point out the ridiculousness (word?) of it before trying to extrapolate its underlying, reasonable meaning. Most people make blanket statements that aren't generally true, call names and belittle, or act with a general sense of superiority (which I bet always works out good with volunteers). While I don't always follow your line of reasoning or take conversation the way you would (which makes sense, since we're two different people), I don't think you fall victim to the maniacal, vindictive, attitude that many complainers on the internet tend to have.

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by KY Dave » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:19 pm

Sara wrote:You also know that you are not the first, nor will you be the last, frustrated poster on the board. Other boards might have warned you or banned you by now for your negativism, we haven't.
I'm not a 'frustrated poster'. I am simply posting what I think will help. I don't know why you keep referring to 'negativism' on my part. It isn't at all. I have a positive additude that we can make things better. I will admit, I'm not a fanboi or cheerleader that thinks everything Anderson does is good. There is a difference.

UFO UFO - Sorry you think my post was like a song. I don't understand that.

hornakapopolis - Thanks for your reply.

I tried to address the issue of 'hot heads' by simply saying 'problems with staff and users' in a couple of places. I do realize the difficulty dealing with hot heads and people that post with an additude problem from the beginning. It is difficult to deal with them. It must be done politely. Others read what both sides write.

I didn't want to flame any staff or user in the process of presenting an outsider's view of what I see that goes on here. The staff issues have gotten better. They're not completely gone, almost, and you have hit on those problems fairly well. I see positive results in that area. I don't want to see any suport staff pushed out or quit, all help is welcome and appreciated, even if it is seldom stated.

As I have stated in other threads, progress could be made in the refinning of the problems and communicating them to the Avant Browser Team. Sara - Please pardon my use of that term, but that is the way Anderson signs the Contact Page.

Let's keep working to make Avant and this support forum better through communications.
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Re: Some things never change...

Post by UFO UFO » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:44 pm

UFO UFO - Sorry you think my post was like a song. I don't understand that.
- i meant the style of the text itself - every sentence is in one line.

i hope i won't hurt your feelings about it , but i have to say the next thing although i am not so active on this forum ( and maybe i am wrong, but this is my feeling about what is going on) :
anyway, i think that you did quite a harsh comment about avant, and i don't think that avant is such a bad program at all, no matter what standards i could ever have.
even when you say your opinion , give some respect and say things in a nicer way. maybe instead of what you said , you could just post every little thing that bugs you , so that you will at least have something to complain about...

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by addonsfan » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:17 am

there's so many browser softwares. I don't think anyone should have room to complain.
osios wrote:No one is twisting your hand.

Just uninstall it and go away.
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Re: Some things never change...

Post by UFO UFO » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:23 am

what's "gg" ? great god? good going?

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by addonsfan » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:07 am

good game

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Re: Some things never change...

Post by UFO UFO » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:32 am

oh, ok.

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