Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

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mbrazil
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Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by mbrazil » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:56 pm

Considering that 48 days passed between the release of builds 107 and 108, I hoped and expected that we'd see some significant improvements in build 108 in terms of restoring important features and functions that disappeared in builds 100 through 107, fixes for at least some of the major bugs, fixes for some of the major design errors (the Sidebar on the wrong side and immovable, the inability to resize the window beyond 1536 x 990, all sorts of other aberrations relating to window sizing, and so many more). However, it seems like all these very major defects (and others) are on the back burner, and for the most part, only minor bugs are being addressed. Build 108 is still a very buggy, crippled approximation of the real Avant. Builds 100 through 108 are probably some of the worst releases of Avant ever, and this is likely to have disastrous repercussions.

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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by Tinman57 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:38 am

I was very unimpressed with this update as well, but at least we can now add/remove/arrange buttons now. If we can only get the major problems fixed like the focus problem(s).....
((((TINMAN))))
----------------------------------------------------------
(Duck! It's another MicroSoft Patch!)

mekd
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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by mekd » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:13 pm

My problem is that Avant, in its core basic, is the best browser. So, the many bugs and flaws are not just enough to force me to move to a new browser (though, now I do use Firefox, in addition). I just halfheartedly grind my teeth and use the flawed Avant.

For me the focus problem and the huge CPU and memory usage are the common obstacles I encounter frequently.

As to the many unneeded and unasked for changes introduced into Avant lately, all I can say is that I am so disappointed from the ignorance to the users' requests and needs, that it reminds me the behavior of the nice guys from Redmond.

I wish there was a more real two-way discussion between the loyal users of Avant and Anderson.

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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by Wiland » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:12 pm

¡Noooooo that sadness!... ¿which will be the future of Avant Browser?. :cry:

mbrazil
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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by mbrazil » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:04 pm

mekd wrote:I wish there was a more real two-way discussion between the loyal users of Avant and Anderson.
More? I wish there was at least some! There is none!

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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by brawnymike » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:18 pm

To be painfully frank, if there were a way to download/convert Avant Browser autofills--of which I have over 100--to a file usable in other browsers (such as Firefox, ideally), I'd already be using another browser exclusively.

Maybe THAT should be a new request for the next version: a way to download/convert autofills. THEN, I would finally take the leap and upgrade to the latest version of AB, if only for the few minutes it takes me to grab my autofill data and run to Firefox.

mbrazil
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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by mbrazil » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:07 pm

Using Avant 2013 IS painful -- for all of us, not just for Frank! (Sorry, I couldn't resist. :oops: :lol: )

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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by brawnymike » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:15 pm

It's starting to dawn on me just how out-of-date the firefox & chrome engines have become on the most recent *usable* version of Avant Browser, AB 2013 build 23. Of primary concern to me is the fact that the firefox engine in that version is generation 19, while the latest REAL firefox engine is at least generation 21. Worse than that, since Anderson has apparently decided that so many functions found in build 23 are now "legacy" and unsupported, there will NEVER be an update to the firefox engine in build 23. Even big old bad Microsoft continues to push out updates to Windows 7, even though Windows 8 has been out for 6 months. It's inconceivable to me how a smart man could pull such a stupid move as to overhaul his product (to great outcry from those who actually use the product) and SIMULTANEOUSLY stop supporting all pre-overhaul versions of that product. What, WHAT, compelled Anderson to make these drastic changes to his product ... because it certainly wasn't user demand? And, why is he giving such a big "f**k you" to those who actually use (and have used & supported) his product for years?

Clearly, I'm at wit's end over this crap ...

mbrazil
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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by mbrazil » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:46 pm

:clap:  Very well said!  :clap:

I was able to update the Firefox engine to version 20.01.4863 in build 23 by copying the gecko folder from build 107. I tried it again when build 108 showed up, but it won't work with the version of gecko included with build 108. Apparently something else has been changed in the build 28 version of gecko that makes it incompatible with Avant build 23.

Actually, big bad old Microsoft is on record saying that it will continue to issue updates to Windows 7 through January 14, 2020, by which time Windows 12 (or whatever) will probably be available, if Microsoft is still producing Windows at all. Microsoft also will continue to push out updates to Windows XP until April 8, 2014, even though XP was released August 24, 2001! That's what's known as standing behind your products. They may do lots of other things we don't like, but they don't abandon their users just because they've released a newer version of the product. Can you imagine the response if Microsoft cut off support for Windows 7 on the day they released Windows 8 (especially since, like the 100+ Avant 2013 builds, Windows 8 is a piece of crap)?

I wouldn't call what Anderson did to Avant an overhaul, since 'overhaul' usually means to extensively repair something that cannot be fixed using normal maintenance procedures. Avant 2012 and even Avant 2013 through build 23 (with the classic skins) were not in need of an overhaul, and what Anderson did to Avant did almost nothing to fix bugs or to make it better -- just the opposite, in fact. Builds 100+ of Avant 2013 are not Avant 2012 overhauled; they are the first releases of an entirely new browser with the same name, and they are very much inferior to Avant 2012. The new Avant is absolute junk compared to the old Avant.

I also am dumbfounded at Anderson's actions and lack of communication regarding the new Avant. Completely discarding most of the things that made Avant a great browser and refusing to even try to put some of them back makes no sense at all, no matter what his intent was regarding the new UI. It's like one of the big car manufacturers releasing new "simplified" models that don't have automatic transmissions, power steering, power brakes, radios, etc. and not even offering these modern essentials as options. How many of those crippled vehicles would they be likely to sell, especially if they didn't respond at all to questions from owners of their previous models?

I can only assume that there is something going on behind the scenes that precipitated Anderson's decision to gut Avant and ignore his user base, although I have no idea what that might be. It does feel like he's giving us the one-finger salute. Clearly, he is not focused on continuing the great work he's done in the past, and he clearly doesn't care at all whether Avant users who have stuck with the product through thick and thin like the new Avant or even whether they continue to use it or abandon it because of the mess he's made of it.

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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by Banz » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:15 pm

Hello,
I'm one of the rather silent users (6 messages in the last 3 years). But I have been using Avant/Orca Browser for a very long time now... I can't even remember when I started since during all thoses years, Avant Browser was THE answer to everything I could have ever dreamed of as a browsing experience, and every other browser was awful compared to AB.
But times are changing... Like every gentleman above, I felt the recent decline of AB, and I decide now to side with them to raise our voices towards the developpers that keep upgrading AB.
"Why ?" is my question... "Why did you remove some of the features that made AB so special ?", "Why did you change the UI, now a huge source of problems, when it worked perfectly before ?", "Why are there so few explanations about what's going on ?".
If only we knew what we were heading for, it might help us to be patient or comprehensive. But for now I only feel frustration and despair, as I'm starting to doubt this will ever get better, rolling with the punches through every AP's update of 2013...
I no longer take pleasure using AB. It's still the default browser on my computer because I'm faithful and I still have hope, but if things don't change and AB keeps heading to this direction with no explanation and no improvement, I'll give up before build 111 is released.
Thank you for reading,
I wish you well =)

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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by xiaobing » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:50 am

xiaobing wrote: We can't coordinate the functions of the old version and the performance of new version currently.
Once we found the solution we'll add them back.

mbrazil
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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by mbrazil » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:18 am

xiaobing wrote:
xiaobing wrote: We can't coordinate the functions of the old version and the performance of new version currently.
Once we found the solution we'll add them back.
Considering how slowly progress is being made (two steps forward, at best, and at least one step back with each build), the large quantity of bugs that have been created by the new UI, the large quantity of bugs that are still there from earlier versions, and the large quantity of important features that have been removed, there may be only five or six Avant users left by the time significant progress is made. Right now, we as users have three alternatives: 1) Use an obsolete version that provides the features we need but that also puts us at risk, because the included rendering engines are outdated and contain known security vulnerabilities. 2) Try to make do with the current builds even though they are very unsatisfactory because they lack many important features, have many bugs, and their reliability is poor. 3) Give up on Avant altogether and switch to some other browser, because we have no way of knowing when, or even if, Avant will ever be restored to the great browser it used to be.

There is one solution to this dilemma: drop back to build 23, fix all the serious bugs, and re-release it for everyone to use use until Anderson can come up with a solution that provides all the classic features, the classic skins, the new UI, better performance, no serious bugs, and relatively few bugs overall. That would bridge the gap between the obsolete versions and the "new version" in which everything is restored and everything works that Anderson keeps promising. That could save Avant, but continuing on the way things are going now is very likely to drive away a large percent of both new and current users, which would probably mean the end of Avant.

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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by mekd » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:48 pm

I guess that one of the main reasons to what happening is that Avant is single handed being developed by one person.

Other browsers are developed and updated by teams of dozens of programmers, UI people etc.

As talented as Anderson can be, this modus operandi must result with constant problems. We must not forget that Avant is a FREE software and Anderson has to make a living elsewhere, so his time resources must be limited.

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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by creep » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:08 pm

After seeing how completely and utterly dreadful 107 was, I have so far completely ignored 108 as I simply assumed it would also be rubbish. So I didn't even bother to download it.


I just thought I would take a look at the forum to see the views of the "critics".

Oh dear ... the reviews look even worse than I expected.


I simply can't understand the apparent aim of turning the best browser, with so much functionality and efficiency, into a joke equallying the worst out there such as Chrome or IE ... or perhaps Avant is now worse ...

It seems to be fashionable for software companies to commit suicide lately ....
Microsoft Windows 8 - I can't see me ever putting that on a real computer

Microsoft Office 2013 - I actually bought this for very small amount ... but I will never use it ... I left Office 2000? 3? on that machine (I had so little faith I actually put it on our games PC). 2013 will never be used. I know lots of people who say the same.

I see websites being designed to be "attractive" or "interesting" but are completely illogical and you get lost because the menus are all over the place. I just go to a different website.

And now Avant - been using it for years - I'll stick with my proper version for now but I certainly won't rush to switch to something worse.

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Re: Build 108 is a huge disappointment!

Post by brawnymike » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:33 pm

mbrazil wrote:
xiaobing wrote:
xiaobing wrote: We can't coordinate the functions of the old version and the performance of new version currently.
Once we found the solution we'll add them back.
There is one solution to this dilemma: drop back to build 23, fix all the serious bugs, and re-release it for everyone to use use until Anderson can come up with a solution that provides all the classic features, the classic skins, the new UI, better performance, no serious bugs, and relatively few bugs overall. That would bridge the gap between the obsolete versions and the "new version" in which everything is restored and everything works that Anderson keeps promising. That could save Avant, but continuing on the way things are going now is very likely to drive away a large percent of both new and current users, which would probably mean the end of Avant.
I concur, resoundingly, with mbrazil. It should be clear by now that, although better performance is a grand aim in the long run, the vocal majority of the currently *remaining* Avant users are not significantly bothered by the performance of AB 2013 build 23 (or AB 2012 build 197). Speaking exclusively for myself, I have experienced NO noticeable performance (speed/memory) issues with either of the builds I've just mentioned ... so I'm stuck waiting for either (1) a new build of AB which will finally have necessary functions reinstated, but long-delayed because Anderson is solving a problem *I don't have*; or (2) a variant of AB 2013 build 23 with the firefox engine updated from firefox 19 to firefox 22. Frankly, I'd prefer the later, and SOON.

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