Your suggestion about the Avant interface

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mbrazil
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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by mbrazil » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:16 pm

My preference would be for the Avant icon to be the same size as the buttons in the Standard Buttons bar without the Avant Browser text label. For me, it's all about not consuming space that I could otherwise use for other buttons, toolbars, etc. As far as I can see, the larger icon would just be for show, and the label is unnecessary.

Avant used to be a great browser with a lot of good features that other browsers don't have and a clean, efficient user interface. All these "improvements" in the new UI just detract from what made Avant great in the first place.

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by Climhazard » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:30 pm

mbrazil wrote:My preference would be for the Avant icon to be the same size as the buttons in the Standard Buttons bar without the Avant Browser text label. For me, it's all about not consuming space that I could otherwise use for other buttons, toolbars, etc. As far as I can see, the larger icon would just be for show, and the label is unnecessary.

Avant used to be a great browser with a lot of good features that other browsers don't have and a clean, efficient user interface. All these "improvements" in the new UI just detract from what made Avant great in the first place.
Exactly :thumbup:

Striving to copy commercial browsers is a wrong way to go. I chose Avant for everyday use because it isn't a copy of those. If you really must change the interface please don't put it as the main UI, at least until everything works without any bugs, and reaches the point of configurability/customization "old" UI has.

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by AXEMAN » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:02 pm

I think most users agree on this :think:

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by brawnymike » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:23 pm

I'd still be happiest with some sort of dropdown menu icon button which draws a little attention and gives a novice user some HINT that there's a menu hidden there. How about a button which looks like this ...
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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by Nederpietos » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:42 pm

Good idea Mike.

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by mbrazil » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:00 am

How about this?
avant button.png
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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by xiaobing » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:33 am

mbrazil wrote:How about this?
avant button.png
It looks a little strange,the one from brawnymike is better IMO.

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by xiaobing » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:48 am

creep wrote: Not only that, two days ago I downloaded a fresh install for a friend who had never heard of Avant. Unfortunately, it installed with the new interface. If I was not there, he would have just uninstalled it immediately.

I switched to the old interface and set it up the same as mine - and he loves it. If Avant is to spread, I believe you need to present new users with something a bit more welcoming than a blank screen ...


I don't think anyone can argue that a welcoming screen is better than an unwelcoming screen, but am I missing something about the new interface ? Is there some compelling reason to use it ? I will not change for the sake of it - it has to be an improvement. Uglier, and harder to use, is not an improvement.
This page should be presented when you finish installing Avant : http://www.avantbrowser.com/UpdateCongr ... spx?uil=en
I had suggested using the old skins as default but it were not used.I'll suggest it again.

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by mbrazil » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:15 am

xiaobing wrote:It looks a little strange,the one from brawnymike is better IMO.
avant button.png
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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by brawnymike » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:36 pm

xiaobing wrote:
mbrazil wrote:How about this?
avant button.png
It looks a little strange,the one from brawnymike is better IMO.
As fond as I am of my own brilliance, I have to admit that I may prefer mbrazil's idea (arrowhead *under* the icon) to my own, for this reason: Elsewhere on the toolbars, buttons containing an icon on the left and an arrowhead on the right follow a protocol of (1) click on the icon for the most commonly desired "flavor" of the function, (2) click on the arrowhead to see all potential "flavors" of the function. This proposed button, however, would not be that kind of button (a "main flavor/all flavors" combo button). Regarding mbrazil's two proposals (small black arrowhead or large blue arrowhead, under the Avant Browser icon): I'd choose either color, but would prefer a *medium-sized* arrowhead ... because (to these eyes) small is, well, too small, and large looks a bit like it's intended to be part of the icon.


H

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by brawnymike » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:39 pm

xiaobing wrote:
mbrazil wrote:How about this?
The attachment avant button.png is no longer available
It looks a little strange,the one from brawnymike is better IMO.
As fond as I am of my own brilliance, I have to admit that I may prefer mbrazil's idea (arrowhead *under* the icon) to my own, for this reason: Elsewhere on the toolbars, buttons containing an icon on the left and an arrowhead on the right follow a protocol of (1) click on the icon for the most commonly desired "flavor" of the function, (2) click on the arrowhead to see all potential "flavors" of the function. This proposed button, however, would not be that kind of button (a "main flavor/all flavors" combo button). Regarding mbrazil's two proposals (small black arrowhead or large blue arrowhead, under the Avant Browser icon): I'd choose either color, but would prefer a *medium-sized* arrowhead ... because (to these eyes) small is, well, too small, and large looks a bit like it's intended to be part of the icon.

How about ...
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mbrazil
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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by mbrazil » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:16 am

avant button L v.PNG
Avant button with large arrow but with more space between icon and arrow.
avant button L v.PNG (825 Bytes) Viewed 4657 times
avant button M v.PNG
Avant button with medium arrow.
avant button M v.PNG (817 Bytes) Viewed 4657 times

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by xiaobing » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:57 am

I had recorded both the ideas.

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by mbrazil » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:26 am

creep wrote: Not only that, two days ago I downloaded a fresh install for a friend who had never heard of Avant. Unfortunately, it installed with the new interface. If I was not there, he would have just uninstalled it immediately.

I switched to the old interface and set it up the same as mine - and he loves it. If Avant is to spread, I believe you need to present new users with something a bit more welcoming than a blank screen ...
This is one of the things I've been alluding to. Existing Avant users may not even realize the classic skins and UI are still there, and new Avant users may be trying Avant simply because they don't like the newer UIs in IE, Firefox, and Chrome. In either case, there's a good chance they'll just uninstall Avant in disgust at another clone of the stripped-down, tablet-centric UI that now seems to be the default browser interface.

I was reading an article earlier today regarding how PC sales are way down, and this was attributed, to a large degree, to what they called "the failure of Windows 8." Part of the reduction in PC sales is the result of tablet and smart-phone purchases, but the major reason PC sales have dropped so much recently is that many people only purchase a new PC when a new version of Windows is released, and the Windows 8 UI is designed primarily for tablets and other touch-centric devices. Microsoft and the PC manufacturers are learning the hard way that people whose primary computer is a PC (including notebooks) rather than a tablet or a web book don't want a touch-centric or tablet-centric user interface, whether it's on a browser or an operating system. By imitating the UIs on current versions of Firefox, Chrome, and IE, Anderson is making the same mistake that Microsoft made, and the results will probably be very similar to the results of making Windows 8 tablet-centric -- a significantly reduced adoption rate and significantly reduced market share.

If you're interested, these are a couple of the articles I read: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... story.html and http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/04/11/ ... unge-ever/.

I don't know if everyone has heard the story about the invention of the QWERTY keyboard layout, but I was reminded of it when I was thinking about what these new browser UIs are like. The QWERTY keyboard layout was intentionally devised and adopted to make typing somewhat awkward, thus slowing typists down. This was done because the mechanisms in the early mechanical typewriters couldn't keep up with fast typists, and they'd jam when someone typed faster than a certain rate. When I have to use one of the newer browser interfaces, like the new UI in Avant 2013, Firefox, etc., it makes me feel like the UI is intentionally designed to slow me down, but for no good reason.
xiaobing wrote:This page should be presented when you finish installing Avant : http://www.avantbrowser.com/UpdateCongr ... spx?uil=en
I think creep was referring more to the somewhat sterile appearance of the new UI, since very few of the standard buttons, toolbars, controls, and menus that browser users are familiar with are visible, especially right after installation. This makes it difficult for new users to figure out how to use Avant, especially since there is no documentation or help that's complete and accurate for the new UI. The bland, rather empty appearance of the new UI and the lack of an obvious entry point to the new UI is what feels less than welcoming.
xiaobing wrote:I had suggested using the old skins as default but it were not used.I'll suggest it again.
Just out of curiosity, when did you suggest this, and were you given any reason why your suggestion was rejected?

Does Anderson ever read these forums anymore? He used to post here once in awhile to give us an idea what he was planning for future versions, but he hasn't posted anything along those lines since September 2010. I'd really like to hear from Anderson regarding his reasons for creating and putting so much emphasis on the new UI at the expense of some of Avant's most important strengths and of its reputation. He never solicited any input regarding Avant 2013 from users in these forums, and he either was unaware of or ignored many of the requests and suggestions that many many of us posted. Now, he seems to be very reluctant to put more emphasis on fixing new and long-standing bugs instead of continuing to develop the new UI, which appears to have very few proponents.

I, for one, would really like to know why.

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by creep » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:40 am

Mike
You are right - I was not referring to the Avant page asking for donations. We did see that at some point but the bit I remember was a page of nothingness - the UI. I referred to it as a blank screen - it wasn't totally blank, but it might just as well have been for anyone new to Avant, or someone not that computer literate. I don't understand why a screen is presented which makes it seem like a test ... "see if you can get anywhere from here !". What's the point ?

Not only is it a struggle to get anywhere, but when they get somewhere they won't like it (I didn't give my friend a chance to see whether or not he would like it, because I already knew I didn't like the new UI) and want to leave.

PCs (all types of computers) can be a struggle. My friend had I-don't-know-what browser and he I was supposed to be searching for a spare part for his fridge. I said to him that if some granny was just being introduced to computers and was faced with his screen (with all sorts of nonsensical Cr*p popping up) they would not have a clue - I said that because I didn't have a clue ! The software on his PC seemed to be in control of the machine instead of me.

I turned off a couple of things, installed Avant, put the old UI on, and everyone was happy.

The idea is to make life simple. Any fool can make life difficult :thumbup:

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by Crazy_John » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:42 pm

xiaobing wrote: 3 Standard style:
3 Standard style.jpg
The standard style is the type of interface that i prefer , but i think that theres abit of space wasted on the top , here is how i would like it to be , it is possible ?
This saves 1 large line of pixels:
3 Standard style 2.jpg
It will be possible move the buttons , the adress bar and the search bar to the right side of the help ?
This saves other large line of pixels (more space available for the page) :
3 Standard style 3.jpg

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by creep » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:58 pm

@ Crazy_John
Are you sure you need your third row ?

My reply No 17 shows something different - I have the favourites on all the time. I have some of your buttons up higher - the rest are (could be) either in the favourites (on the left) or ye olde Microsoft Office 2000 Shortcut bar (on the right) ... :wink:

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by Crazy_John » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:18 pm

Less than 3 may be "hard" , because i like of use the bookmarks bar (links folder in the favourites) .

here is a pic of how i use avant right now (xito - old skins):
avantoldskin1.jpg

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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by mbrazil » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:05 pm

mbrazil wrote:Existing Avant users may not even realize the classic skins and UI are still there
Look at this: http://forum.avantbrowser.com/viewtopic ... 21&t=32491

It proves my point.

Having Avant start up with the new UI with no explanation whatsoever immediately after installation is very confusing for people who aren't expecting it (probably, most of the existing Avant user base).

PLEASE change the installer so that the classic UI is used by default. You could add something to the Avant page (http://www.avantbrowser.com/download.aspx?uil=en-us) that loads automatically the first session after installation (the one that asks for donations) to show and describe the new UI and tell people how to enable it if they want to try it out. Forcing the new UI on everyone who upgrades to or installs Avant 2013 is going to scare lots of people away from Avant.
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Re: Your suggestion about the Avant interface

Post by Nederpietos » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:42 pm

I agree Mike. i'm using Avant more than 10 years now and even i was like "where the f**k is my file menu?" There's nothing that tells you to click on that Avant logo. The classic UI should be the default one for sure! They also should add something to the skins option to make clear which skins use which UI. "Classic UI" skins and "New UI" skins or whatever you want to name it.
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