Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Discuss Avant Browser. Do not post support requests, bug reports, suggestions for new or improved features, etc. here. Put those in the Help, Bug Reports, and Requests forums, respectively.

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MHETWP
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Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by MHETWP » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:55 am

Why is it, that time and time again, I read posts in this forum pleading for changes in your product, such as a way to delete only certain cookies - reserving the right not to delete "all" cookies as the current version does. And time and time again, the response is "that this would add too much bloat to the program, use a third party program." I would think that some, not all, of these requests would only improve your browser, and be appealling to more and more people. Many other browsers have these same features and have no performance problems, so I don't understand what the problem is? You don't necessarily need to mimic other browsers, but I would think you still need to stay in and/or ahead of the game. Do you not want to have a better and more competetive browser? I think you have a great browser and I have been using it for years, but I do feel that there are a few areas in which you could add a few new features that would enhance the capabilities of your browser without adding "bloat". Food for thought, think about it, but I for one would like to see some real enhancements added to this browser to make it truly competetive in today's altenative browser marketplace.

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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by Sara » Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:28 am

The browser is free--no marketplace.

Sara :mrgreen:

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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by blitzmaster » Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:17 am

i think what he meant for market place is the general field of competition.

and of course all browsers are free! :D
By Any Means Necessary!

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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by MHETWP » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:48 am

Yes Sara, as blitzmaster posted, that is exactly what I meant. As a moderator of this forum, is that all you have to reply? I'm sure you must have something more productive to offer than "The Browser is free--No marketplace" In the first place, everyone here knows that, that is more than likely why they are using the product, because it is FREE!!!

Have you nothing to reply to the real content of my post, or like most posts in this forum, is it going to go blindly unnoticed. It's time for some real answers, no brush offs like the answer/post you just provided. Reread my post, collaborate with your fellow moderators, if you must, but come up with a better answer than that. Credit me with a little more intelligence than that as I am in the computer business myself, testing software, and I for one, would never answer or treat one of my clients in such a manner. You have a second chance, use it wisely.

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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by Sara » Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:09 am

The reality is that none of the staff here have any direct input to what does and doesn't happen with the browser. We can ecommend, I've forwarded whole threads to the Developer so he can see what is concerning his users, sent emails, etc.. Anderson does pay attention, however he doesn't always tell us what he is planning (rarely, in fact). He has his view of what his browser will be, and while he does try to satisfy many requests he chooses which ones, we don't.

So I had a choice between what I well knew was a flip answer and an answer that will give you no satisfaction whatsoever. Rock and a hard place.........

I'm sorry if I offended you, but it seems like all of the staff find ourselves trying to deal with questions like yours when all we are here to do is to help users use the browser and, hopefully, occassionally see the users' requests met.

Sara :)

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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by MHETWP » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:02 am

Sara, I'm sorry if I came across rude, I did not mean to offend you personally. Sometimes it just gets a little frustrating not getting answers, like you said, between a rock and a hard place, whick I don't mean to place you in. It would just seem to me that there should be a better solution for all of this type of "stuff" and take some of the burden off of you and provide better information for us-the customers. Whether it be a seperate board in the forum for changes (which I think there is..) and upgrades-feature additions, etc... to keep the customer abreast of what the developer is going to do now and in the future. This would better help you disseminate information more effectively and take a lot of work load off your shoulders. You might suggest this to Anderson. I realize that he ultimately is responsible for what goes into the browser, but if he was somehow aware of how many suggestions per feature there were, maybe that would entice him to put that certain feature in, rather than him just deciding for himself, you know what I mean. This means the moderators would somehow have to devise a way of counting up the amout of suggestions. Things like this, I mean, be creative-think outside the box and maybe get some results.

Again Sara, I'm sorry if I offended you, I only mean to offer support and to get some answers in an area you describe as somewhat chaotic and dictatorial. Not the best combination for any type of progress.

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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by hornakapopolis » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:38 am

This isn't solely to you, because we seem to be getting more and more of these posts where people think they're the only one to come up with the absolutely brilliant idea of... having the developer of Avant look at the requests/suggestions/and bugs reported here and doing what they say.

What's odd about this is the batch that we've seemed to have lately. Although, I guess that it seems that most of the issues we have seem to come up together in groups.

Maybe the staff here will have to discuss putting something like this up as an announcement, but personally, whenever it's been brought up before, I've always had a hard time thinking of a way to word it so that it doesn't seem rude to Anderson or portray him in a bad light... and I think that's because the purpose of the message is to serve those that (sadly, wrongly, or however you want to portray it) don't have to be served. And when wording it, if you don't word it in a way that maybe puts Anderson in a bad light, then you'll probably come across as being rude to those that you're posting it for. So... at this point, I've only come up with something along these lines...

As we've probably stated hundreds of times here on the forum, this browser is developed by one person, Anderson Che. Only he decides what will be implemented in terms of bug fixes, features, and tools. Not us and not you. Technically, a browser doesn't need a support forum. It will start up and work just fine if there's not one. (Well, for most of us anyway.) A support forum is going to need a staff, however. But, don't confuse the purpose. The staff is here for the forum, not the browser. Now, the people that make up the staff are probably going to be chosen because they're ones who have helped people with the browser, that only makes sense. But again, if someone came along who could make a great bug reporting system, but had never used Avant before in their life... they might make it on the staff. But, going back to the browser, none of us here know how much money Anderson is making on this. (I'd guess, not a lot.) It's not our concern and it's really none of our business. And since we don't know and since we don't pay for this browser... we're not customers. At some point, when Avant (or IEOpera) was first released... no one used it... because no one knew about it. If Anderson chooses to continue along the same path as he did back then, then chances are Avant will plug along without us. Meaning (and I think this is the part that most people on the internet today have a hard time understanding) we don't really matter. As individuals, we're not that important when it comes to this web browser. And there's really no reason we should be. Personally, I think it's a bit arrogant that we would think we are in the first place. Now, as a collective, we are... but how much? It's a free browser. If Anderson doesn't put our favorite feature in... then what? We're not going to pay him... again!? In the long run, I think things like this forum might hurt Avant in the long run because they give people the impression that they matter. And they don't. And hey, I'm including me in this, too. I used to come on here a lot and now, due to other reasons, I don't anymore. And you know what? ...No change. Everything's fine. No one died, starved, missed an episode of American Idol... nothing that would adversely affect anyone's life. The fact that that happens is all right. Telling someone that that's the way it is seems to bother them, though.

So, if you're here to tell us that everyone in your "company" of "50 million" computers will stop using Avant if your favorite feature doesn't get put in... um, okay. We get it, you're very powerful. Just don't move the Death Star over here to Earth and blow us up, all right? If you're going to tell all of your friend (spelling error intentional) that we're jack-booted moderator stormtroopers over here, even though plenty of other people seem to be able to post in the right forum, then okay. You got us there, too. I guess there
are a few people that should post the same thing 5 or 6 times wherever they want because their message is so important it must be placed all over the place. (Admittedly, usually when this does happen, having it posted in a lot of places would make it easier to find on those nights where I have insomnia and need something to help me go to sleep.) And finally, yes, even though we've posted many times who develops Avant, who chooses which requests get put in, and this forum has approx. 100,000 posts here before yours... your the first person to think that Anderson coming here and reading everything and doing exactly what you want is what would work best. No, seriously, no one has ever thought of that before... not even this week!.

So, as you can see, I'm still a bit stuck between saying it seems like Anderson doesn't really think that what we think matters and saying that what we think really doesn't matter. And then, there's the whole inaccurate middle ground you have to deal with, too. For instance, in the first post here, I don't think Anderson has ever said that something would add too much bloat and to use a third party product. Now, from the posters' perspective, they're just one person posting, but from the staff's perspective, a lot of the posts we read (especially when it come to "the way things are") usually have one huge glaring inconsistancy... and that's not even counting the "we really don't matter" thing. So, if you wanted to be harsh, couldn't you sort of argue that ones existence and ability to post here doesn't automatically bestow upon them the right to be treated like royalty? Especially if they don't bother to research their facts or know what they're talking about in the first place? And this doesn't necessarily refer to you, MHETWP. Although, I'm a little unsure how you're assigning second chances to people in this forum. But, from the looks of the posts, it was probably just some tempers flaring and it's all water under the bridge now.

Again, this post isn't directed solely at you MHETWP. A lot of it isn't directed to you at all. There have just been a lot of posts lately telling everyone the way things should be, use of terms like "customer," and having a general tone that seems to ignore the fact that if if everyone who answered a question here was obliged to answer questions, no questions would get answered. It's just begun to amaze me how everyone expects their point of view to be understood (and most of the time accepted, darn it!), but makes no effort to understand anyone else's.
Last edited by hornakapopolis on Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: First line stated "is" instead of "isn't." Definitely worth correcting

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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by josephrot » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:41 pm

Well stated, if not long but right on...hornakapopolis.

Sometimes, we all need to remember that at any time, any one of us can be replaced by a switch marked "OFF".

Think not of all the problems and a digital browser glass half empty...think of all that Anderson Che has done with Avant and given to his users, of a glass half full, and slowly filling up. **

** In my think, it's a Cherry Cola, but that's a whole other story.
Last edited by josephrot on Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by Chef_Garry » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:09 pm

In response (& support) of Horny's post, let's never forget the moderators here are totally unpaid volunteers. There have been a number of what I see as somewhat forceful and demanding posts. I'm not pointing at anyone in particular but there is (IMO) a bit of a trend that these folks shouldn't need to deal with. Kudos to y'all! =D>

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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by Circumlocutus » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:47 pm

Hey Horn. wasn't that just a verbose version of this?
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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by AYG » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:43 am

As usual, suggestions are always welcome. But users can never expect that their suggestions, however good, must be implemented. :)

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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by Victek » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:56 am

hornakapopolis wrote: The staff is here for the forum, not the browser.
This is an important point that distinguishes this forum. Virtually every other software application forum I visit directly represents the developers of the application. Those forums exist in part so the developers can get feedback with the intention of making the app better by fixing bugs and evolving the feature set. The developers actively partcipate. Of course that doesn't mean they grant every user's wish for new features, but over all the developers do make an effort to please the users. This is true regardless of whether the product is freeware or payware. The Avant forum is unique in that the developer has almost no presence here, and as you say the forum moderators don't really represent the developer either. I think you may be right that the forum may actually hurt Avant by (unintentionally) giving users the false impression that they have access to the developer only to discover that they don't. I'm not suggesting that the forum go away, but it is an odd situation.

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Re: Avant Browser Requests for Upgrades

Post by hornakapopolis » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:50 pm

It's nice to read a post with the thoughts along the same wavelength. Thanks. :D

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