Speaking openly...

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Speaking openly...

Post by Minilik » Mon May 21, 2007 11:34 pm

Don't get me wrong... I highly recommend Avant to anyone who for whatever reason just HAS to use the MSIE 6.x.

But even with Avant installed, MSIE is still MSIE and thus (WITH Avant) is only a close 3rd after my 2 current favorite browsers. And no, NONE of my favorite browsers include FireFox. I don't see how everybody fails to know what the term "firefox" really means... it is a very cruel thing indeed... back in the old horse and buggy days of warfare, before they invented internal compustion engines, flamethrowers or napalm, the invaders would destroy the crops of the invaded landscape by taking a live wild fox and wrapping its tail with kerosene-soaked rags which they then lit on fire and released the poor fox to run all through the crops with its tail on fire spreading the fire as it ran until the fox died of the pain or smoke inhalation... it is as bad as if they named their browser software "Rapist" or "Wife-Beater". So that alone, glorifying animal cruelty, is enough reason why Firefox will never be one of my browsers!

But my top 4 browsers are:

1: NS v8 (or v9 when it's released which will be a multi-OS full internet suite once again unlike v8)

2: Seamonkey 1.1 (a Mozilla Internet suite... equal to NS 7.5 had there been such a thing)

3: Avant

4: Opera

In that order.

The only reason why Avant can never rise above #3 with me is because it is really MSIE... a very super-charged MSIE, but still really MSIE under the nice shiney Avant tweak-job.

If you really want to impress me, make an add-on for NS8 that combines components of SeaMonkey (everything but the SM browser) to make a full internet suite out of Netscape v8. Why? Because NS8 has great passworded/engrypted security for each user profile and a superior autofill system and Seamonkey has a great spellchecker and a good Email/News client (not as good as Forte Agent, nothing is, but its not too shabby at all) and SM has a Webpage composer, built-in FTP, Telnet and Gopher client and a number of other useful features, bells and whistles. But NS8 and SM each lacks the best features that the other has. If someone made an add-on that perfectly melded the best of both, WOW! Now THAT would really impress me!

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Post by André » Tue May 22, 2007 12:22 am

SM has a Webpage composer, built-in FTP, Telnet and Gopher client and a number of other useful features
This is one thing I don't really like. Why should a web browser have all of these things? For consistency purposes? To make it easier for you? I just don't get it. I would much rather have seperate programs for my email, one for FTP, one for Telnet and Gopher (both of which I don't use). A browser doesn't need all those "features." It needs to browse the web and do nothing more than that. If you need extra in your web browser, use SeaMonkey, Firefox, or Netscape (ew). Do not bloat Avant Browser with that stuff.

Anderson is making a browser based off of the SeaMonkey and Firefox rendering engine (Gecko) which will have the Avant interface but use Gecko instead of Trident (IE's rendering engine). Eventually, it has been said that he will merge the two so you can use either rendering engine from the same interface.
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Post by Sergei » Tue May 22, 2007 1:52 am

I don't believe that story for a second, incidentally. Why use a fox for your incendiary when they are not exactly easy to catch? A dog or a sheep or indeed any domestic animal would do as well or better.
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Post by André » Tue May 22, 2007 1:57 am

Moved to AB Discussion.
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Post by Minilik » Tue May 22, 2007 2:06 am

DrDrrae wrote:
SM has a Webpage composer, built-in FTP, Telnet and Gopher client and a number of other useful features
This is one thing I don't really like. Why should a web browser have all of these things?
No disrespect intrended in any part of this reply.

The web browser DOESN'T have all those things. the SUITE does. The web browser is merely one component in the suite and can and does operate without loading any of the other programs in the suite. It only loads those other programs when you tell itr to do so. The default program in the suite is the web browser. But the other functions are NOT part of the browser function. You can load one of the functions without loading the rest if you like. Thats what a suite does. Just like EZ-writer, that is an office suite. It has the word proccessor, the graphics program, the database program, the portfolio program, etc any of which can be loaded without the other but which are all made to work in cooperation with the other. In fact, any GUI operating system is a suite. Would you rather go back to command lines and programs that are written with no intention to play well with other programs?
DrDrrae wrote:For consistency purposes? To make it easier for you? I just don't get it.


For INTEGRATED COMPATABILITY. That is why MSIE (and Avant) is written to load a mail client when you click a mailto link. Thats integrated compatability.
DrDrrae wrote:I would much rather have seperate programs for my email, one for FTP, one for Telnet and Gopher (both of which I don't use).
Tiny programs like Telnet and FTP are integrated with MSIE. They are part of windows. Go use MSIE to click on any FTP link and see what it by default out of the box. What it will do by default is load the MS ftp.exe client that was MADE to work WITH IE. Likewise when you click on a MAILTO link or a NEWS: link etc.
DrDrrae wrote:A browser doesn't need all those "features."
Again, I am talking about an internet SUITE and BTW, every browser DOES involve those functions abd that is why even YOUR browser recognizes protocols OTHER than "http". Sorry if youi forgot about that fact.
DrDrrae wrote:It needs to browse the web and do nothing more than that.
Even LYNX does more than that. They ALL do more than that. You are just forgetting to recognize that they do. It is just a question of HOW they do.
DrDrrae wrote:If you need extra in your web browser, use SeaMonkey, Firefox, or Netscape (ew). Do not bloat Avant Browser with that stuff.
You seem to be forgetting that Avant itself is NOT a browser. It is an add-on FOR a browser. MSIE is the browser and Avant is an add-on... a change of looks and an addition of extra functions. Avant is called an add-on because it does just what you say should not be done... it ADDS more functions TO the MSIE browser. If you are against adding fucntions to browsers then that is contradictory to the purpose of Avant, so why incorperate auto-fill instead of still using Roboform, etc.

There ARE more functions called for ON web pages than just reading "rich text" and links anymore. And they are adding MORE functions and protocols every day.
DrDrrae wrote:Anderson is making a browser based off of the SeaMonkey and Firefox rendering engine (Gecko) which will have the Avant interface but use Gecko instead of Trident (IE's rendering engine).
Okay that sounds interesting but for which OS platforms?
DrDrrae wrote:Eventually, it has been said that he will merge the two so you can use either rendering engine from the same interface.
Yeah, Firefox, Bon Echo and Netscape 8 (all mozilla browsers) all let you choose which rendering engine between the two of them now. Seamonkey only uses Mozilla's rendering engine. I only use MSIE based browsers when the website I want to use doesnt allow any of the Mozilla browsers that I like. Being on the net from before it opened to the public, I have learned to adapt, albeit begrudgingly, to additions and changes in protocols. Thats how I know about links that start with gopher: and so on.

Maybe you have also been around that long... Yes?

PS: I was still composing this reply when you moved the thread to where ever "AB Discussion" is located. I am new here and don't know where everything is located. How about a link to the new location please?
Last edited by Minilik on Tue May 22, 2007 2:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Minilik » Tue May 22, 2007 2:14 am

Sergei wrote:I don't believe that story for a second, incidentally. Why use a fox for your incendiary when they are not exactly easy to catch? A dog or a sheep or indeed any domestic animal would do as well or better.
Too bad you didn't even look it up before you accused me of lying.

BTW.. people do raise wild foxes in captivity too. Once you catch a mated pair and breed them they remain wild but you can transport one easily in a chicken carrier or even in a sack if they wanted to be crueler and make it be more adrenaline-charged. I dont have all the answers but it is a historical fact, If I remember what I read correctly the Prussians were one group who used that tactic. You know the Prussians... the same nationality that later killed 6 million civilians of my people in WWII in Auswitz, etc on behalf of a crazy little Austrian painter.

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Post by André » Tue May 22, 2007 2:47 am

Yes, browser recognize other protocols, ftp, mailto links, etc. but they are very limited. IE itself isn't an email client and it's FTP funtions are limited. I cannot chmod using IE, i cannot login using ssh, etc. I don't, however, need a full fledged FTP program and email client in my browser.

Avant is an addon for IE but it doesn't add features that don't expand the browsing experience like email clients and ftp programs. It adds things like ad and pop up blockers, quick search abilities, tabs, etc.
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Post by abfan123 » Tue May 22, 2007 8:44 am

Avant is actually not "An addon to IE".
Avant is a shell of the Trident Engine.
IE is also a shell of the Trident Engine.Just like Firefox is a shell of the Gecko engine.
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Re: Speaking openly...

Post by hornakapopolis » Tue May 22, 2007 12:54 pm

Minilik wrote:So that alone, glorifying animal cruelty, is enough reason why Firefox will never be one of my browsers!
Actually, I'd recommend not using any browser, and possibly any piece of software, since the process of naming the software is usually called "branding."

And this story... being somewhat fond of history, I've never heard this story outside of Judges. And even then it wasn't referred to as "firefoxing." And many would even argue the historical correctness of that little tome, too.

I'd be curious to find a little more on this if you could point me in the right direction.

And then again, wasn't "Minilik" the ruler of Ethiopia who ordered electric chairs while ruling. That's not exactly gentle. And people in those tend to scream a lot louder than foxes, too. They both smolder and smoke about the same amount, though. It's been a while since I've heard the story, but I always remembered it because when he received the electric chairs, he realized he couldn't use them because he didn't have electricity. :roll: So, he made one his throne. :?

There's a little more to things than just a name, isn't there?

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Re: Speaking openly...

Post by scubamaster » Tue May 22, 2007 2:07 pm

The ruler of Ethiopia's name was actually Menelik also spelled Menelek. Funny story about the electric chairs :lol: . See the Wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menelik_II_of_Ethiopia

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Post by hornakapopolis » Tue May 22, 2007 3:26 pm

Ha!

By the way, try Minilik on Wikipedia, it takes you there, too.

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Re: Speaking openly...

Post by daveshrop » Wed May 23, 2007 10:09 am

Minilik wrote:Don't get me wrong... I highly recommend Avant to anyone who for whatever reason just HAS to use the MSIE 6.x.

But even with Avant installed, MSIE is still MSIE and thus (WITH Avant) is only a close 3rd after my 2 current favorite browsers. And no, NONE of my favorite browsers include FireFox. I don't see how everybody fails to know what the term "firefox" really means... it is a very cruel thing indeed... back in the old horse and buggy days of warfare, before they invented internal compustion engines, flamethrowers or napalm, the invaders would destroy the crops of the invaded landscape by taking a live wild fox and wrapping its tail with kerosene-soaked rags which they then lit on fire and released the poor fox to run all through the crops with its tail on fire spreading the fire as it ran until the fox died of the pain or smoke inhalation... it is as bad as if they named their browser software "Rapist" or "Wife-Beater". So that alone, glorifying animal cruelty, is enough reason why Firefox will never be one of my browsers!


Intriguing story but was kerosene around in those days?
I thought it was jet fuel!

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Post by Minilik » Fri May 25, 2007 5:04 am

abfan123 wrote:Avant is actually not "An addon to IE".
Avant is a shell of the Trident Engine.
IE is also a shell of the Trident Engine.Just like Firefox is a shell of the Gecko engine.
A shell? You mean like Bash or Midnight commander? I dont see any way to do OS commandlines in Avant. I do not see why you say it is not an addone for MSIE.

BTW there is no use discussing firefox with me. I don't use firefox. So that subject is 100% moot.

I only use Netscape 8, Avant, Seamonkey and Opera with WIndows and with Redhat I only use Seamonkey for Linux and when released for linux, I will be using Netscape 9 most. I don;t think there is any Avant for Linux so I can't try it on that platform

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Re: Speaking openly...

Post by Minilik » Fri May 25, 2007 5:24 am

hornakapopolis wrote:
Minilik wrote:So that alone, glorifying animal cruelty, is enough reason why Firefox will never be one of my browsers!
Actually, I'd recommend not using any browser, and possibly any piece of software, since the process of naming the software is usually called "branding."

And this story... being somewhat fond of history, I've never heard this story outside of Judges. And even then it wasn't referred to as "firefoxing." And many would even argue the historical correctness of that little tome, too.

I'd be curious to find a little more on this if you could point me in the right direction.

And then again, wasn't "Minilik" the ruler of Ethiopia who ordered electric chairs while ruling. That's not exactly gentle. And people in those tend to scream a lot louder than foxes, too. They both smolder and smoke about the same amount, though. It's been a while since I've heard the story, but I always remembered it because when he received the electric chairs, he realized he couldn't use them because he didn't have electricity. :roll: So, he made one his throne. :?

There's a little more to things than just a name, isn't there?
Minilik is my surname and who ever said I was gentle. I just do not like the sin of unnecessary animal torture. Branding doesnt kill anything, I am a carnivor not a vegan, I think PETA people are usually quite psychotic,(not all), and I am a theo-imperialist super-conservative so you apparantly misread where I was comning from. I am against unecsessary animal torture, that doesnt make me an animal rights kook. Just to set you straight.

As for your comment about my great great grandfather Minilik II, buying electric chairs, I don't think that is relevant but he never used them and execution is not a bad thing for those guilty of a capital criime anyway. You see, Abyssinian prisons never had electricity in his lifetime so the only one which ever got used was the one that he had made into a throne.

By the way, Minilik II was the last legitimately coronated male monarch of my nation as well as being an extremely high esteemed ancestor of mine so please don't ridicule my family. If you know that much about him then I am suprized you did not recognize my family coat of arms.

And Minilik II was NEVER EThiopian. He was Abyssinian. To call an Abyssinian "Ethiopian" is the same as calling any black person the American racist slur "darkie" because that is what the term "Ethiopia" is in koine greek (ancient street-greek), from which the term originates,("Aethi-Opi" is a koine greek slur which literally translates "burnt-face" and which the ancient greeks used to speak mockingly of Africans in general, IE: back in Alexanders day).

As for a firefox reference... I will try to ask my elder friend who told me that when I next speak to him, but I remember that before I heard it from him I had also heard it on either TV or talk radio at least a decade or two before he mentioned it to me.
Last edited by Minilik on Fri May 25, 2007 5:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Speaking openly...

Post by Minilik » Fri May 25, 2007 5:37 am

scubamaster wrote:The ruler of Ethiopia's name was actually Menelik also spelled Menelek. Funny story about the electric chairs :lol: . See the Wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menelik_II_of_Ethiopia
No sir. In fact "Menelik" is how europeans anglicized the spellong because they are ignorant about how to read Abyssinian vowel markings which are more difficult for euros to read than are hebrew vowel markings.

And like Homer Simpson said... Wikipedia is the one place in the world where you can write anything you want with no basis in fact and have it actually be published and accepted as true by the general public.

Again, he was never an Ethiopian, his nation was not named that perjoritove name until some 18 years after his assasination and what does all this have to do with Avant, people? Because I sure as heck was not the one who made a discussion out of my name! I don't go around putting peoples names under a microscope, especially where I'd be off topic. At least my comments about why I dont use firefox had something remotely to do with web browsers.
Last edited by Minilik on Fri May 25, 2007 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Speaking openly...

Post by Minilik » Fri May 25, 2007 5:41 am

daveshrop wrote:
Minilik wrote:Don't get me wrong... I highly recommend Avant to anyone who for whatever reason just HAS to use the MSIE 6.x.

But even with Avant installed, MSIE is still MSIE and thus (WITH Avant) is only a close 3rd after my 2 current favorite browsers. And no, NONE of my favorite browsers include FireFox. I don't see how everybody fails to know what the term "firefox" really means... it is a very cruel thing indeed... back in the old horse and buggy days of warfare, before they invented internal compustion engines, flamethrowers or napalm, the invaders would destroy the crops of the invaded landscape by taking a live wild fox and wrapping its tail with kerosene-soaked rags which they then lit on fire and released the poor fox to run all through the crops with its tail on fire spreading the fire as it ran until the fox died of the pain or smoke inhalation... it is as bad as if they named their browser software "Rapist" or "Wife-Beater". So that alone, glorifying animal cruelty, is enough reason why Firefox will never be one of my browsers!


Intriguing story but was kerosene around in those days?
I thought it was jet fuel!
I don't know what the flamable liquid was called, I just used "kerosene" as a general term and yes kerosene was being distilled long before there were any jet engines. Thats what they generally used in kerosene lanterns and I know they had kerosene lanterns way before they had jets and maybe even before they had mets too. Go ahead... run with it.

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Post by Minilik » Fri May 25, 2007 6:02 am

Minilik wrote:I don;t think there is any Avant for Linux so I can't try it on that platform
Now that is an idea. What about it???

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Re: Speaking openly...

Post by daveshrop » Fri May 25, 2007 7:29 am

Yeah,i was only being facetiousImage

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Post by abfan123 » Fri May 25, 2007 7:44 am

Minilik wrote:
abfan123 wrote:Avant is actually not "An addon to IE".
Avant is a shell of the Trident Engine.
IE is also a shell of the Trident Engine.Just like Firefox is a shell of the Gecko engine.
A shell? You mean like Bash or Midnight commander? I dont see any way to do OS commandlines in Avant. I do not see why you say it is not an addone for MSIE.

BTW there is no use discussing firefox with me. I don't use firefox. So that subject is 100% moot.

I only use Netscape 8, Avant, Seamonkey and Opera with WIndows and with Redhat I only use Seamonkey for Linux and when released for linux, I will be using Netscape 9 most. I don;t think there is any Avant for Linux so I can't try it on that platform
Well,
An addon is something that integrate itself into the program (Example:IE7Pro)
Avant is a stand-alone application that's using the Trident Engine (shdocvw.dll/mshtml.dll)
So even if you'll uninstall IE,Avant will still run.

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Post by Minilik » Tue May 29, 2007 3:05 am

abfan123 wrote:
Minilik wrote:
abfan123 wrote:Avant is actually not "An addon to IE".
Avant is a shell of the Trident Engine.
IE is also a shell of the Trident Engine.Just like Firefox is a shell of the Gecko engine.
A shell? You mean like Bash or Midnight commander? I dont see any way to do OS commandlines in Avant. I do not see why you say it is not an addone for MSIE.

BTW there is no use discussing firefox with me. I don't use firefox. So that subject is 100% moot.

I only use Netscape 8, Avant, Seamonkey and Opera with WIndows and with Redhat I only use Seamonkey for Linux and when released for linux, I will be using Netscape 9 most. I don;t think there is any Avant for Linux so I can't try it on that platform
Well,
An addon is something that integrate itself into the program (Example:IE7Pro)
Avant is a stand-alone application that's using the Trident Engine (shdocvw.dll/mshtml.dll)
So even if you'll uninstall IE,Avant will still run.
Okay, I get it, but since I don't speak programmer, any more than that might be a little over my head. Thanks.

I'm a hardware guy... anything to do with programming is gibberish to me... especialy as a high-function Aspergers savant. Programming is done by the right side of the brain where I am deficient. I'm proficient in left-brain stuff like logic and hardware and such primal urges as hunt-kill-cook-eat-****-sleep and do it all again tomorrow. :P

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